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[海军动态] 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

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发表于 2021-01-09 15:08 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 onepiece 于 2021-01-09 15:11 编辑



(1994年9月下旬,小鹰号在日本海与考本斯号(CG62)导弹巡洋舰编队航行。一个月后就发生了小鹰号跟汉级核潜艇的黄海对峙)。

刚上网路查了下,找到1994年12月中旬一篇华盛顿邮报(12月15日)以及一篇洛杉矶时报(12月14日)关于这个事件的报导。中国方面的叙述因为在网路上很多了,这里就省略不提。照这两篇1994年美国方面的报导,当时美国对中国方面的强硬反应看起来相当吃惊;当时小鹰号在东中国海主要是为了威慑平壤当局(正在跟美国进行核框架协议谈判),跟踪汉级潜艇只是一件常规程序(美国海军航母战斗群跟踪任何在附近的核潜艇)。

看起来事后美国高层才意识到事情的严重性,并且完全低估了中国的军事能力以及捍卫领域的意志。而美国军方一直强调当时小鹰号机队所有的作业都在公海上,并没有侵犯中国领空领海,基本上就是当惯了老大的心态。

这件事情第一时间美国方面也低调处理,1994年12月14日洛杉矶时报应该是率先披露,次日华盛顿邮报也报导。

===

首先引述洛杉矶时报,整理了当时小鹰号的部署情况

7月16日:小鹰号返回日本(先前在波斯湾)

9月22日:小鹰号伴随三艘巡洋舰、一艘护卫舰、两艘补给舰、一艘核潜艇从横须贺启航,前往朝鲜附近海域。洛杉矶时报称,1988年汉城奥运以来,美国就不曾派遣航母到朝鲜附近水域。

这显然是为了影响当时美国与朝鲜在日内瓦的朝美核框架协议(DPRK-U.S. Nuclear Agreed Framework)谈判。洛杉矶时报引述,当时美军太平洋战区司令Ronald Zlatoper上将接受星条旗报(Stars & Stripes)报导采访时,「暗示」了部署小鹰号是针对美朝核谈判;Ronald Zlatoper在采访中提到,「海地是个很好的例子...强势军力可以影响外交...小鹰号这次部署意义非凡,过去美国从没有派遣航母到此处水域。然而,五角大厦对於Zlatoper上将受访时的言论并不高兴,当时克林顿政府正与平壤当局谈判,Zlatoper的言论会提供平壤更多着力点,在日内瓦的谈判桌上攻击美国,而参谋联席会议主席Richard Macke上将也告诫了Zlatoper上将(Zlatoper上将事後澄清,称星条旗报断章取意,将两段分开的采访内容连结与过度引伸)。

10月3日:小鹰号短暂停靠韩国釜山,这是例行访问(韩国总统金泳三也有登舰)。

10月27到29日:10月27日。小鹰号的战斗群在黄海遭遇一艘中国091汉级核动力潜艇,小鹰号的S-3反潜机在距离战斗群200海里的距离上标定了中国潜艇;当时这艘汉级潜艇在潜望镜深度作业(35至40英尺)。小鹰号的反潜机投掷声纳浮标进行例行的跟踪作业。然而中国的军机随后就不断朝小鹰号而来。中国核潜艇继续朝青岛基地航行。

华盛顿邮报的报导补充了比较多细节:10月27日,小鹰号战斗群发现一艘潜艇,稍后确认为中国汉级核潜艇,距离小鹰号约450海里。10月28日,一架小鹰号的S-3反潜机追踪汉级潜艇时,两架中国歼-6战斗机前来,在这架S-3周围飞行约5分钟。次日(10月29日),另一架S-3反潜机又遭到一架中国歼-6逼近,歼-6停留了大约30分钟(注,中国方面的叙述是歼-7,在远距离上美国飞行员可能没办法目视区分这两型军机)。

依照美方的叙述,之后这艘汉级潜艇回到青岛海军基地,结束了对峙事件。



美国国防部官员透露,黄海事件之后,在一个位于北京的非正式外交场合,中国官员对美国官员表示,中国方面对这次事件非常生气,称美国在离中国海岸极近的距离作业;中国官员说,下次在有类似情况,中国军方下达的指令就是开火击落。然而,华邮也引用中国驻美大使馆的反应,他们否认有发生这次军事对峙,「都是谣言」(似乎是想息事宁人避免坏了关系)。

照两个报纸的新文叙述,美国对中国方面的强烈反应算是相当惊讶,有点措手不及的感觉。华盛顿邮报称,美国官员前一天表示(华盛顿邮报刊登这则报导的前一日),他们无法说准这次事件对中美双边关系的影响。美国方面一直强调这件事情发生在国际水域与空域,美国海军进行的全都是例行、非威胁性的常规作业(美国太平洋舰队司令部发言人Steve Clawson上校的说法)。

相当讽刺的是,在黄海对峙事件前两周,当时美国国防部长William J. Perry才访问北京,商讨改善中美两国军事合作互动事宜。

报导表示,此事件后,美国海军也十分关注中国海军朝外洋发展的野心。一位在美国企业机构(American Enterprise Institute)的中国防务学者Chong-Pin Lin表示,以往中国海军专门聚焦在沿岸,但近年中国海军在逐步打造一支战力更强、更多才多艺且持续精进的蓝水力量,并展现了朝远海投射军力的野心。

美国有专家推测,北京方面如此强烈的回应,是因为美国在邻近中国领土不远的水域作业。美国军方坚持小鹰号的军机是在国际空域作业,他们回投检查了当时美军军机回报的卫星定位纪录。美国军方官员强调,当时美方军机在中国海岸50海里以外的距离作业,远远不到12海里领海的范围。一位五角大厦官员坚称,小鹰号的指挥官的所有作为都正常合宜,包括追踪出现在航母周边的中国核潜艇,因为任何出现的他国核潜艇都是顾虑。一位五角大厦官员认为,中国方面从没有明说他们所定义的领域界线,而照美国海军的观点,界线都是传统定义的12海里领海。

当时中美关系出现了一些乱流;中国方面取消了先前双方计画很久的美国交通部长Federico Pena访问中国的行程;美国国务院发言人Michael McCurry表示,双方在7月时已经预先协商,要探讨美国运输相关产业在中国的双边合作,但近日中方却说此时并不适合会谈,而美国对此十分失望。

===


还有一篇War History机构在2017年5月的文章,主要是提2006年小鹰号附近有一艘039潜艇上浮的事件,对1994年中美黄海对峙也有一些叙述。

文章提到,冷战时期美国跟苏联对这类军事遭遇有一些协议,避免不必要的误会,导致擦枪走火。然而,当时美国跟中国之间还没有这类协议。

在1994年10月27日,小鹰号战斗群在黄海发现一艘核子潜艇(使用声纳装置),然后部署反潜机投掷声纳浮标等来标定位置。这是一艘中国汉级核潜艇。然后从10月28日起,中国军机涌现到这个区域,甚至通过小鹰号;北京方面还威胁要发出击落(shoot-to-kill)的命令。在10月29日,美国方面才得到告知,这艘汉级潜艇并不是在追踪小鹰号,它只是要返回青岛基地而已。事情结束后,小鹰号离开这个水域;然而,这次事件在在显示中国的军事技术能到什么地步。

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 楼主| 发表于 2021-01-09 15:09 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导


1994年12月14日洛杉矶时报报导

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-12-14-mn-8896-story.html

Faceoff Between U.S. Ship, Chinese Sub Is Revealed : Military: October incident in Yellow Sea highlights growing chance of naval conflict. Beijing sounds warning.
By JIM MANN AND ART PINE
DEC. 14, 199412 AM
TIMES STAFF WRITERS

WASHINGTON —  The American aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk and a Chinese nuclear submarine squared off in international waters off China’s coast this fall in a maritime encounter that demonstrated the growing potential for naval conflict between the United States and China, The Times has learned.
Shortly after the incident, which occurred in the Yellow Sea on Oct. 27-29, China served notice through a U.S. military official in Beijing that the next time such a situation arises, China’s orders will be to shoot to kill, Pentagon officials confirmed this week.

Although in the end no shots were fired in the high-seas confrontation, U.S. officials acknowledge that it was serious. The captain of the Kitty Hawk dispatched anti-submarine-warfare aircraft to drop sonic devices designed to track the nuclear sub, and Chinese jet fighters scrambled and flew within sight of the American planes.

Finally, after the Chinese submarine withdrew to its base at the port of Qingdao, the U.S. aircraft carrier was pulled out of the area. The Kitty Hawk, whose home port is San Diego, had been used earlier to project American power in the Persian Gulf and off the coast of Somalia before it was transferred in July, at the height of the Korean crisis, to an American naval base in Japan.

The encounter underscored the growing maritime tensions between the U.S. Pacific Fleet and China, which is rapidly developing a blue-water navy. U.S. officials say they found the nuclear submarine in open waters where they had rarely spotted Chinese vessels before. There had been one other instance, in early September, in which U.S. Navy ships encountered a Chinese submarine, but that episode ended much more quietly.

The previously unreported incident also highlights some of the gunboat diplomacy involving the United States, China and North Korea that surrounded the U.S.-North Korean nuclear agreement reached Oct. 17.

In September, the Kitty Hawk was dispatched to waters off North Korea in what a U.S. military official acknowledged was a show of force intended to influence nuclear negotiations in Geneva--in roughly the same way that the dispatch of American troops had induced Lt. Gen. Raoul Cedras and his military regime to give up power in Haiti.

“I think the Haiti example is a good example of how . . . some very strong military forces can influence diplomacy,” Adm. Ronald Zlatoper, commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, told the newspaper Stars & Stripes at the time. He also said the deployment of the aircraft carrier near North Korea was “significant because, in the past, we haven’t had a carrier battle group presence in this region.”



The Navy’s carrier battle group included not only the Kitty Hawk but also three cruisers, one frigate, one submarine, two logistics ships and an estimated 10,000 American naval personnel.

To the apparent consternation of Clinton Administration officials, the Yellow Sea incident took place less than two weeks after Secretary of Defense William J. Perry traveled to Beijing to try to improve military cooperation between the United States and China.

Pentagon officials have been watching as China has rapidly increased its naval strength, with the aid of some purchases from what was once the Soviet Union’s navy. U.S. officials said this week that the Chinese navy recently ordered four conventional submarines from Russia and that one of those left St. Petersburg recently for refitting in another port.

The nuclear submarine encountered by the Kitty Hawk is one of five operated by China’s navy. It is 330 feet long, weighs 5,000 tons and carries torpedoes, U.S. officials say. U.S. intelligence officials say the nuclear submarines don’t often operate in the open ocean but that their operations have picked up lately.

Harlan W. Jencks, a UC Berkeley expert on the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, wrote in a recent article that leaders in Beijing now view the American military presence in the Pacific as being “at least implicitly” in opposition to China. “Recent U.S. Navy exercises with Southeast Asian navies casting China as the potential troublemaker have reinforced this perception,” he explained.

In the Yellow Sea incident, American anti-submarine aircraft detected the Chinese nuclear submarine off the Shandong peninsula, about 200 miles from the Kitty Hawk, Pentagon officials said. The Chinese vessel was found through electronic monitoring devices. At times during the three-day encounter, it operated at periscope depth, about 35 to 40 feet below the surface.

For a time, the Chinese submarine eluded the carrier group, and American planes began dropping devices known as sonobuoys in an attempt to relocate it. After they found the ship, the Kitty Hawk and the U.S. planes continued to track it. In response, the Chinese air force at one point sent its jet fighters toward the aircraft dispatched by the Kitty Hawk.

The Chinese submarine then moved back to Qingdao, the main naval base on China’s eastern coastline. In 1986, at a time when relations between Washington and Beijing were warmer, U.S. Navy warships visited Qingdao for their first port call on the Chinese mainland since the end of China’s civil war.

According to U.S. officials, China’s warning that it will use force next time was made to an American military attache during a dinner in Beijing. Chinese officials apparently felt that the warplanes accompanying the Kitty Hawk may have come close enough to the mainland to violate Chinese airspace. It is not clear whether U.S. and Chinese officials have had further discussions of the incident since the Chinese warning.

Some U.S. officials believe that China’s strong reaction reflected some embarrassment that the U.S. carrier battle group operated in the vicinity of the Chinese coast. On Tuesday, a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington said accounts of the incident involving the Kitty Hawk and the Chinese submarine were just “rumors. . . . Nothing happened.”

U.S. officials insist that the Kitty Hawk and its planes did not violate Chinese airspace, a fact they say was confirmed by satellite tracking equipment aboard the aircraft. And Pentagon officials insist that the Kitty Hawk’s captain did “the appropriate thing” by tracking the Chinese sub, because “there always are concerns” about other powers’ nuclear submarines.

“They (Chinese officials) have never defined what they consider to be their territorial limit,” one Pentagon official said Tuesday. As a result, he said, from the U.S. Navy’s point of view, the limit is the traditional 12 nautical miles.

According to Pentagon sources, Adm. Richard Macke, commander in chief of all U.S. forces in the Pacific, informally admonished Zlatoper for appearing to suggest in the published interview that the deployment of the Kitty Hawk near North Korea was timed to influence the diplomatic talks between the Clinton Administration and Pyongyang. Zlatoper said Stars & Stripes linked too closely words he had spoken in separate parts of the interview.



State Department officials reportedly were unhappy with Zlatoper’s comments, which gave North Korean negotiators a reason to attack the United States at the Geneva talks.

Soon afterward, the aircraft carrier pulled into the South Korean port of Pusan, and Rear Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the commander of the Kitty Hawk battle group, said the deployment of the carrier group was “not specifically tied to the rhythm of the negotiations in Geneva.” The Kitty Hawk was then moved away from Korean waters to east of Japan.

A Show of Force

The events leading to the tense showdown between a U.S. aircraft carrier and a Chinese nuclear submarine off the eastern coast of China:

* July 16: Kitty Hawk arrives in Japan from Persian Gulf. United States, Japan announce plans for joint naval exercises in East China Sea, first in that area since 1988, at time of Seoul Olympics.

* Sept. 22: Aircraft carrier battle group, including Kitty Hawk, three cruisers, one frigate, two logistics ships, one submarine and an estimated 10,000 naval personnel, is dispatched to waters off Korean coast.

* Oct. 3: Kitty Hawk reported to be in South Korean port in Pusan; commander says its visit is routine and not meant for military showdown.

* Oct. 27-29: In Yellow Sea, Kitty Hawk encounters Chinese nuclear submarine. U.S. anti-submarine-warfare planes drop sound buoys to keep track of the sub; China scrambles jet fighters toward Kitty Hawk. Chinese submarine proceeds to base at Qingdao.
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 楼主| 发表于 2021-01-09 15:09 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导


1994年12月15日华盛顿邮报报导


https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/12/15/chinese-watched-as-us-navy-tracked-sub/80a7a30c-974d-4ac0-95ef-21eecc554b41/

CHINESE WATCHED AS U.S. NAVY TRACKED SUB
By John F. Harris and
Thomas W. LippmanDecember 15, 1994

U.S. Navy antisubmarine planes spent three days trailing a Chinese nuclear submarine in the Yellow Sea in late October, prompting the Chinese to send up three fighter jets to confront the tracking aircraft.

U.S. officials acknowledged yesterday they were having trouble deciding how much significance to impart to the encounter, which they said took place over international waters.

The incident began Oct. 27 and continued until the submarine returned to Chinese territorial waters Oct. 29, the U.S. officials said. At first, according to a Navy official, commanders aboard the USS Kitty Hawk, the aircraft carrier then steaming in the area, thought little of the incident.

Only later, officials said, was a U.S. defense official told informally at a social occasion in Beijing that Chinese officials were angry about the encounter and that U.S. forces were operating so close to their shores.

The Chinese official said the next time such an incident occurred, the Chinese plan to shoot the planes down, the defense official reported through intelligence channels.

The Chinese have not lodged a formal diplomatic protest, State Department spokesman Michael McCurry said. Other U.S. officials said they have no reason to believe military tension with China is on the rise.

But the volatility of U.S.-China relations was demonstrated anew yesterday when the Chinese called off a long-planned visit next month by Transportation Secretary Federico Pena, apparently to demonstrate displeasure with Pena's visit to Taiwan last week.

Pena had long been scheduled to visit China Jan. 7-17 to discuss bilateral transportation issues and promote U.S. transportation-related business, but China has informed him the visit would "not be convenient at this time," McCurry said.

The scuttled Pena visit reflects the problems Washington has long had walking a thin line in trying to forge closer relations with Taiwan, a major trading power and fledgling democracy, without alienating Beijing, which views Taiwan as part of China.

"We are disappointed that the Chinese side has chosen not to receive Secretary Pena," McCurry said.

The October naval incident, which was first reported in yesterday's Los Angeles Times, was seen by some analysts as a consequence of China's more aggressive naval posture.

The Chinese traditionally have had a narrowly focused coastal navy, but lately have been producing a "more versatile, more capable and continuously improving blue-water navy," with ambitions for projecting force on the high seas, said Chong-Pin Lin, a China national security scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. "I don't think they want a confrontation" with the United States, Lin said of the October incident. "They're only probing."

A U.S. military official said he believed the American planes were about 50 miles from the Chinese coast, far outside the 12-mile limit.

The Chinese Embassy here said it knew nothing of the incident. As U.S. naval officials describe it, the Kitty Hawk was on a regular Pacific deployment in October. Earlier, it had been placed off the Korean peninsula, as a show of force to North Korea during negotiations with the United States over that nation's nuclear program. On Oct. 27, submarine trackers picked up the presence of a submarine -- it was later identified as a Chinese Han nuclear attack submarine -- about 450 miles northwest of the carrier.



S-3 planes began tracking the submarine, U.S. Navy officials said. The planes dropped listening devices to follow the vessel, but they were not armed with antisubmarine torpedoes. On Oct. 28 one of the S-3s was "joined up" by two Chinese F-6 fighter jets, which flew around them within visual range for about five minutes, according to a Navy official. The next day, another S-3 was joined by a single F-6, which flew in the area about 30 minutes. "U.S. Navy ships and aircraft operated only in international waters and airspace, and in a routine non-threatening manner," said Capt. Steve Clawson, a spokesman for the Navy's Pacific Fleet.
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 楼主| 发表于 2021-01-09 15:09 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导


War history online的文章:
When a Chinese Submarine Surfaced Next To The USS Kitty Hawk in 2006

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/chinese-submarine-surfaced-next-uss-kitty-hawk-2006-m.html

On October 27th, the USS Kitty Hawk, an aircraft carrier, was passing through the Yellow Sea in international waters when they detected something in their sonar. To track the object, they deployed anti-submarine warfare planes which dropped sonic devices into the sea.

It turned out to be a Chinese Han-class nuclear-powered attack submarine (SNN). During the Cold War, the US and the USSR had established a protocol for such encounters to avoid conflict. Unfortunately, no such protocol existed between the US and China.

On October 28th, the Chinese scrambled jet fighters to the area, making passes over the Kitty Hawk, while Beijing threatened shoot-to-kill orders. By October 29th, the US was told that the sub wasn’t stalking their aircraft carrier. It was simply trying to get back to its base in the port of Qingdao.

The matter settled, the Kitty Hawk left the area, but it showed just how far Chinese technology had come. The Chinese thought so, too.
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 楼主| 发表于 2021-01-10 09:30 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
相关讨论

https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2677838&mobile=1
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发表于 2021-01-10 09:54 | 显示全部楼层
现在美国佬的报道少了,就是前几年去钓鱼岛转一圈,被人基本全程跟踪,太丢人了;再往后很少见到相关报道了。应该是不好跟踪了
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 楼主| 发表于 2021-01-10 09:56 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
CD1987 发表于 2021-01-10 09:54
现在美国佬的报道少了,就是前几年去钓鱼岛转一圈,被人基本全程跟踪,太丢人了;再往后很少见到相关报道了 ...

我贴的第三篇提到比较多东西
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发表于 2021-01-10 09:57 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

onepiece 发表于 2021-01-10 09:56
我贴的第三篇提到比较多东西

是嘛。我再瞅瞅
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发表于 2021-01-10 10:19 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
零几年那会,在航母警戒圈范围内,距离老熟人小鹰号数百米的海面上小宋突然破海而出那回才叫找回了场子,海兔诡异莫名的行为模式震惊得美鳖惊诧不安,小鹰战斗群好几个指挥官挨背锅
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发表于 2021-01-10 10:22 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

我们还是不够强大,等过几年我们也在纽约外海13海里处玩玩儿
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发表于 2021-01-10 10:26 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
当时是朝核危机最紧张的时刻,如果美韩大举入侵朝鲜,不知以中国当时的实力能否有效支援……
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发表于 2021-01-10 10:44 | 显示全部楼层
歼-7 !!!!!

当年有多难,不忍心回头看啊。
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发表于 2021-01-10 11:07 | 显示全部楼层
你他娘的扛着枪扛着炮,在我家五十米外瞎转悠,还撵着我家的看家狗乱跑,这也叫正常?
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发表于 2021-01-10 11:17 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
歼6歼7。好心酸的感觉。94也好,96台海危机也好,如果真的打起来,后果有点不敢想。输不起输不起。

--来自论坛助手 iPhone客户端
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头像被屏蔽
发表于 2021-01-10 11:35 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
解放美国上等兵 发表于 2021-01-10 11:17
歼6歼7。好心酸的感觉。94也好,96台海危机也好,如果真的打起来,后果有点不敢想。输不起输不起。

--来自 ...

有啥输不起的。用核武器。接着重建更方便。不首先使用核武器是对外的,内战事先没说过不能用啥的啦哈
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发表于 2021-01-10 11:45 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

鬼见愁出手 发表于 2021-01-10 10:19
零几年那会,在航母警戒圈范围内,距离老熟人小鹰号数百米的海面上小宋突然破海而出那回才叫找回了场子,海 ...

这件事倒是没听说过,愿闻其详
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CDer:001101818
发表于 2021-01-10 11:45 | 显示全部楼层
现在,美军航母怎么不来黄海了?
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发表于 2021-01-10 14:30 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
woodface 发表于 2021-01-10 10:22
我们还是不够强大,等过几年我们也在纽约外海13海里处玩玩儿

美国领海是3nm,因为他们建国的18世纪,火炮有效射程就是3nm,但是实际操作中还是按12nm操作
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 楼主| 发表于 2021-01-10 14:35 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

giaogiao 发表于 2021-01-10 11:45
这件事倒是没听说过,愿闻其详

2006年039在小鹰号旁边上浮事件,在国外早就吸引很高的关注,中国自己官方当然否认。

我引述的第三个外网文章就是提这件事,那艘潜艇在小鹰号5海里外上浮(小鹰号当时航向冲绳准备进行演习),上浮的时候小鹰号战斗群才发现。后来小鹰号的战斗群也不清楚这艘潜艇怎么撤退的。这件事情让五角大楼困扰了一阵子。
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 楼主| 发表于 2021-01-10 14:36 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

庞加莱回归 发表于 2021-01-10 14:30
美国领海是3nm,因为他们建国的18世纪,火炮有效射程就是3nm,但是实际操作中还是按12nm操作


3海里领海这种主要是大英帝国制订的。

后来联合国开始定海洋公约法、12海里领海、200海里专属经济海域,最初英国也反对。对传统海强,最有利的当然是海洋可以任意进出以及进行活动,
划专属经济海域对他们不利(制订海洋公约法的时候就是英国跟冰岛鳕鱼战争那些年)
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CDer:000858492
发表于 2021-01-10 14:53 | 显示全部楼层
和西方国家,领海宽度不是用嘴能谈出来的,最终靠打
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CDer:001122532
发表于 2021-01-10 15:03 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
giaogiao 发表于 2021-01-10 11:45
这件事倒是没听说过,愿闻其详

具体的故事细节当然只是存在于坊间说法中,可不敢乱说。
但那是有正式新闻报道的,搜一下关键词“宋级在小鹰号附近上浮”之类的,应该还有。。。
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CDer:000478019
发表于 2021-01-10 16:19 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

阔里吉思 发表于 2021-01-10 11:35
有啥输不起的。用核武器。接着重建更方便。不首先使用核武器是对外的,内战事先没说过不能用啥的啦哈

问题是当年手头核武器也是屈指可数啊!
按照XX人物华棣的披露,当时XX仅有3枚。。。。。
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CDer:000286889
发表于 2021-01-10 18:01 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
上次三艘航母在朝鲜周边,也是想造势。

只是三艘航母,每艘四十多战斗机,在东亚已经算不上什么决定性力量了。
而且航母自身难保。
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CDer:000266319
发表于 2021-01-10 18:09 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
ureyan 发表于 2021-01-10 11:45
现在,美军航母怎么不来黄海了?

也来过,在韩国一侧
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CDer:000524629
发表于 2021-01-10 18:13 | 显示全部楼层
加油,努力吧!
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CDer:000177810
发表于 2021-01-10 18:22 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
歼6能跟踪监控s3长达30分钟?希望是真的但确实感觉6爷没这么长的续航力。
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CDer:000177810
发表于 2021-01-10 18:24 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
还有,20多年前,如果美国真的以每年50万吨油和两个轻水堆换来朝鲜弃核,实在是太太太合算的交易
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发表于 2021-01-10 18:54 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
chen-yuan123 发表于 2021-01-10 18:22
歼6能跟踪监控s3长达30分钟?希望是真的但确实感觉6爷没这么长的续航力。

没有,是歼七

--来自论坛助手 iPhone客户端
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发表于 2021-01-10 18:54 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
chen-yuan123 发表于 2021-01-10 18:22
歼6能跟踪监控s3长达30分钟?希望是真的但确实感觉6爷没这么长的续航力。

我觉得这个版子更接近事实,是偶遇加误会居多。

--来自论坛助手 iPhone客户端
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发表于 2021-01-10 18:55 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
onepiece 发表于 2021-01-10 14:35
2006年039在小鹰号旁边上浮事件,在国外早就吸引很高的关注,中国自己官方当然否认。

我引述的第三个 ...

所以我曾经说过,常规潜艇设伏是有机会的,尽管航母编队编有核潜艇。

--来自论坛助手 iPhone客户端
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发表于 2021-01-10 19:18 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
你们还是军迷?某军事节目里海军专家这事说过不止一回,总的意思是,中国核潜艇被美帝航母战斗群调戏过,相当被动。但中国潜艇也给了美帝航母两次回击,一次是长时间尾随,一次是巴士海峡附近上浮,然后就是美帝指挥官一系列的革职查办之类的事。
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发表于 2021-01-10 22:17 | 显示全部楼层
华北特大空情……
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发表于 2021-01-10 22:26 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

庞加莱回归 发表于 2021-01-10 14:30
美国领海是3nm,因为他们建国的18世纪,火炮有效射程就是3nm,但是实际操作中还是按12nm操作


早就从法理上改回12了。里根时代改回去的。
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发表于 2021-01-10 22:39 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

AndreiGoogle 发表于 2021-01-10 18:55
所以我曾经说过,常规潜艇设伏是有机会的,尽管航母编队编有核潜艇。

--来自论坛助手 iPhone客户端

别说设伏就是突袭都一样有机会,海洋太复杂了,对潜艇的探测目前还是有点玄学的味道。90年代埃及就在演习中用033摸进了美国航母防御圈并完成了模拟攻击。
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发表于 2021-01-10 22:46 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

woodface 发表于 2021-01-10 10:22
我们还是不够强大,等过几年我们也在纽约外海13海里处玩玩儿

美国没签署海洋法公约,认定的领海线是3海里。
所以,我们的军舰可以在4海里处无害通过!
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发表于 2021-01-10 22:50 | 显示全部楼层

RE: 关于1994年中美黄海对峙事件,引述几篇当时的美方报导

chen-yuan123 发表于 2021-01-10 18:24
还有,20多年前,如果美国真的以每年50万吨油和两个轻水堆换来朝鲜弃核,实在是太太太合算的交易

美国压根就没有打算说话算话,只是想忽悠北朝鲜自己弃核。
所以北朝鲜很愤怒,感觉被戏弄了!
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发表于 2021-01-11 09:14 | 显示全部楼层
苏联解体之后,一场海湾战争彻底竖起了雄霸天下的姿态。中国也确实被震慑到了。但是核战略是中国的底线,这次中国不强硬,那么美国下次就用航母和攻击核潜艇把我们黑鱼堵在窝里了,出来,就全程盯着,像对付苏联一样。所以中国必然强烈对抗的
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发表于 2021-01-12 07:37 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
郑人有履 发表于 2021-01-10 22:50
美国压根就没有打算说话算话,只是想忽悠北朝鲜自己弃核。
所以北朝鲜很愤怒,感觉被戏弄了!

朝鲜政治外交幼稚,和老流氓打交道,你自己没有打倒老流氓的实力或是你也是老流氓,指望谈判获得承诺,完全是脑子进水的节奏。
中国外交不耍流氓,给国外一个错觉,都以为世界无论大小国都平等,小国其实都是附庸,程度不同而已,连大英帝国都是美国的附庸,日本主权都不完整,朝鲜和英日就不是个量级。
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发表于 2021-01-12 07:40 超大游击队员 | 显示全部楼层
onepiece 发表于 2021-01-10 14:35
2006年039在小鹰号旁边上浮事件,在国外早就吸引很高的关注,中国自己官方当然否认。

我引述的第三个 ...

有细节资料吗,这个事是真事,只是没有细节资料
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